by SUSAN MANN
A marriage between two Ontario bean producers’ organizations hasn’t yet taken place but there is already some discord.
The Ontario Coloured Bean Growers’ Association wants the producer vote on a merger proposal between itself and the Ontario Bean Producers’ Marketing Board to proceed even though the marketing board formerly withdrew from the process last month. The marketing board, which represents white pea bean growers, sent a letter to the Ontario Farm Products Marketing Commission, which is conducting the vote, dated Sept. 18 saying it was withdrawing from the process. Marketing board directors voted eight to one to pull out of the merger, according to an Oct. 1 marketing board press release.
The vote will go ahead anyway despite the marketing board’s opposition to it being held. Ontario Farm Products Marketing Commission chair Geri Kamenz told both organizations in a Sept. 21 letter the commission will proceed with a producer vote this month, the release says.
Kamenz says for about 1.5 years a steering committee made up of representatives from both the white bean and coloured bean boards has been developing a proposal for amalgamation. “After such a long and robust process that clearly identified all of the benefits to growers, to be fair and respectful of bean producers’ wishes we’re going to proceed with the vote.” That way growers can express their opinion on whether a proposed merged board would more efficiently and effectively work with the stakeholders in the industry to grow the edible bean sector.
The bean marketing board is now requesting a meeting with Ontario Agriculture Minister Ted McMeekin “to express its concerns about the process and with the commission’s direction,” the Oct. 1 bean marketing board release says.
Bean marketing board chairman Grant Jones says they’re not against the merger. But the commission changed some of the terms of the original proposal and the new imposed conditions are no longer in the best interests of Ontario’s white bean growers.
Jones says one of their biggest concerns is the board could always negotiate pick and drying charges on all white beans in Ontario. Under the commission’s new proposal, the marketing board would only be allowed to negotiate pick and drying charges on the beans going through the pool.
Only about 10 per cent of Ontario’s white bean production goes through the pool, he explains, noting “we’re disappointed that we’re not allowed to negotiate the pick and drying on all the beans because a lot of producers want that aspect of it regardless of whether they put them in the pool or not.”
Kamenz says the commission did not substantively change the proposal. The white bean board had an implicit understanding that the ability to negotiate pick and drying charges would continue. But “we were very clear and said growers need to be able to collaborate with processors, build relationships with processors and negotiate their own pick and drying charges,” he explains, noting the commission’s sense is Ontario has progressive growers who are able to negotiate contracts with processors. The province has a vibrant processing community that is aggressively looking for growers to work with and they will negotiate fair and equitable contracts. Growers no longer need the white bean board to negotiate on behalf of all producers.
Kamenz adds the vote is the white and coloured bean growers’ opportunity to say whether or not they support a new organization that more effectively and efficiently meets their needs.
Coloured bean growers association chairman Dave Woods says the producer vote should still be held despite the marketing board’s withdrawal from the merger process. “There are lots of efficiencies that can be gained by having one organization. It makes no sense to have two organizations when we’re essentially dealing with the same crop.”
Having one organization will eliminate duplication of items, such as staff, buildings and director expenses, and free up a significant amount of money for variety and herbicide research. “The industry is small now and we simply cannot afford those duplications,” Woods explains. “There’s just not enough money left over for us to do what we need to do for the growers.”
Another benefit white bean growers will get from amalgamation is they will be able to market their crop outside of Ontario, Woods says. “That is something they’ve never had before.”
Woods agrees the commission did make some changes to the proposal. But it’s still very important to let producers vote on the merger.
In fact, Woods says the amalgamation will mean less regulation and the white bean marketing board’s ability “to regulate the dealers is no longer something that’s palatable within the industry.”
About the marketing board’s concern with the changed proposal, Woods says it’s a non-issue with the growers. “Let’s ask the growers and if I’m wrong, I’m wrong.”
Jones says the marketing board representing white bean producers is urging all of its growers to ensure “they weigh all the facts before they vote” and to understand the proposal in the voter package isn’t the same as the one presented to growers during meetings this summer. Sixty to 70 of the 562 white bean producers in Ontario attended meetings on July 3 and 5. There is 70,000 acres of white bean production in the province.
Jones says the commission approved the steering committee’s proposal on June 7. But sometime after the producer meetings, the commission changed the proposal, Jones says. The commission didn’t give an explanation as to why it changed the proposal, he notes. “I know what happened but I don’t want to put that on paper.”
Jones and Woods say the voter packages will go out to all bean farmers starting next week after Thanksgiving. The mail-in voting will be held the end of the month.
Woods predicts the vote “will be overwhelmingly in favour of the merger.”
There are 400 coloured bean growers growing 40,000 acres in Ontario, Woods says. BF
Bean board merger archive
Comments
Every year in Ontario, farmers are voting or giving their support to end monoploy's, in the recent years we have seen changes to, tobacco, hogs and the wheat board, soon we will see what i hope will be positive changes coming to the bean boards control. I grow white beans and have also grown black beans, i think there are a lot of opportuntities for these crops and the more freedom we have to market them the better off farmers will be.
lets cut the red tape in the farming community, just like we want government to do in other area's
I hope i live to see the time when we have marketing freedom in the dairy and feather sectors, becuase those farmers who really want to invest their time and energy into being sucessful and innovative there will be great rewards in store for them.
I see some really amazing farm opperations in the USA where farmers have really been able to make a go of feather and dairy farms by thinking out side the box. I know farmers here in canada can and will do the same once supply management is ended here.
Sean McGivern
PFO
To be succinct, it boils down to this according to FPMC.
1. " The white bean board had an implicit understanding that the ability to negotiate pick and drying charges would continue. But FPMC spins it with “we were very clear and said growers need to be able to collaborate with processors, build relationships with processors and negotiate their own pick and drying charges,” he explains, noting the commission’s sense is Ontario has progressive growers who are able to negotiate contracts with processors.
Translation..... get big or get out!
2.Read the fine print!! "understand the proposal in the voter package isn’t the same as the one presented to growers during meetings this summer." It's an old sales tactic now used by FPMC called bait and switch.
So, the moral of the story is be very carefull what you think you are voting for because what you get may not be what you thought.
'So, the moral of the story is be very carefull what you think you are voting for because what you get may not be what you thought.'
I think after the grain vote, the farmers should be very careful when they sign the vote. What are they signing away?
Sean when did the white and coloured bean vote become a supply managed issue . We all know what your motive is from other comments from other stories . If you want to farm with out SM so bad I suggest you pack up and move south of the border . Your comparision of what is happening over there is not relevent to here because so many things are not the same . US farm bill and Agstability for one . Oh yeah I forgot you don't want any support for farmers so you better level the playing field by getting the US , EU and others to stop all farm programs . If you want to farm under their rues you need to move there !!
Your Needle Is Skipping !!
You really dont't get it, it's about freedom of choice, if i own my land and i want to grow any type of food i choose to its my right to do so and i will grow and sell what ever food i want from my farm. There isn't a marketing board with enough fear of God in them to try and stop me, look how powerless they are when it comes to Michael Schmidt, they are all talk and no action. why hasn't the milk marketing baord stopped the other dozen raw milk dairy farms in Ontario from operating ????? The world has changed baby boomers and your thinking is leaving you stuck in your past, there is a new generation of farmers and we dont want the welfare checks and government controls you've been so happy to be dictated by. i farm 2200 acres and have never recieved one single farm subsidy nor will i ever, its pathetic and i would much rather stop farming then ask the tax payers to propt me up.
Sean McGivern
PFO
With 2200 acres why would you need money from the goverment , bet you had the land before the price was out of this world. You could be a prime person to help alot of younger people just wanting to start farming get some cheap land ,as some write in and say they should get land next too nothing.
I farm with alot less than that and the goverment hands no money to me which I don,t mind as long as they cut the money they hand to big corperations, people that doesn,t want to work and their big pensions fund.
I wouldn,t buy 1 glass of raw milk from a farmer , its nice to have it pasturized and clean.
Look at the meat plant XL big and they do what ever they want and the farmers are the ones that pay for it, Canada isn,t perfect buts its alot better than a bunch of Countries.
Be thankful we can still bitch and be not throwen in prison or worst.
I started farming from ground zero full time when i was 22 i am now 33 i olny had one 1970's 60hp tractor and some old junky equipment and $20,000 cash saved up from summer jobs. My parents were not farmers and had never been farmers. I rented land and a barn to get started and drove 5 miles every day to do my chores, I have never recieved an ounce of help or support from any supply managed neigbours that was free, but i have had a lot of non supply managed farmers help me out over the years and teach me a lot of stuff that a new farmer needs to learn. I have also never recieved a single penny from the government to make my farm work.
I have also volunteered thousands of hour to the fair board, commodity boards, farm organizations and producers meeting and consumer events. I can make a living from my farm with out needing a monoply to protect me.
I do not and will not ever support supply management as it is today. I am sick of hearing people on here say how we just need to improve supply management rather then get rid of it, for the record can some one tell me what you supply managed farmers and supporters are doing to improve it ???? that annoying statment of lets just improve has been the talk for the past 10yrs i have been farming and likely a lot longer, but never any changes at least nothing positive.
Today i farm 2200 acre, with no subsidies and no monopolys to propt me up if i can do with starting out at age 22 with nothing then i think all of you multi generational supply manged farms could to .... and if you can't maybe its time for a career change ?
Sean McGivern
PFO
My dear young farm leader if history repeats itself as your gains are judged compared to past farm leaders you will be coming up short of improvements
So who gets to vote for the bean board?
Corn and bean farmers voted to dissolve the wheat board if people remember.
And only 20% of grain growers returned their voter card because everyone was afraid to sign the sheet with all the confidential information which was handled by a outside data collection agency.
There have been far too many votes where the terms of reference have been altered by political agendas ie the recent agricore grain votes tied to production records and then requiring a signature. What other voting ever required signatures except one engineered by government?
That said representatives like Jones making statements like “I know what happened but I don’t want to put that on paper.” does not qualify as leading while keeping important information from the producers he represents.
A voter can not make an informed decisions without full and clear disclosure from the person(s) chosen to represent. There have been too many clouded or altered information sessions associated with pivotal votes of the past. It is particularly disheartening when our leaders do not understand the potential consequences of anything less than full and clear disclosure.
When the grains vote took place, a small minority returned their voter sheet. Of those farmers, little over half agreed to create a new board.
That meant about 13% of all corn, bean and wheat farmers voted to dissolve the wheat board and create a new system.
The minister of the day said that was enough to give a go-ahead and proceed with farmers "wishes".
If the government can let corn and bean farmers vote on wheat board issues, what is there to stop this government letting corn, bean, wheat, pork and cattle farmers vote on milk, eggs and chicken board issues?
Fair is fair.
Who gets to vote or have a say in this is it a board or the farmers that grow the grains.
the whole system is corrupt with back scratching. you will never fix the political injustice till you take legal action
In todays world of provincial politics agricuture, farming is a pawn, name one honest strait politican.We had a full time job as chairman of farm products for Mr Hope with big salary he then moves to deputy minister of agriculture. We now have a farmer as chairman. Is he part time full time? Kind of funny the past chairmans salary was public with the sunset clause of civil servants, but what is the salary of the present chairman, is he a civil servant? How can you farm every day near Ottawa and be chairman every day at Guelph??????
We need to have an investigation of who ,what and how the Farm Products commission fuctions!
Alot of good an investigation would do . We had an audit of Agricorp not too long ago and what good did that do ? There is not any one GFO out there with the balls to ask for it .
There are many reasons offered but as the politicians continue reshaping and eliminating farm boards and organizations, one clear trend emerges.
Farmers are losing power in a society dominated increasingly by a small number of powerful corporations.
Whether it's the pork board's loss of marketing authority or the elimination of wheat, corn, or bean boards it's a loss for producers even though some who ignore the lessons of history might want to believe otherwise.
Does anyone remember the government delay announcing the results of the Grain Farmers of Ontario vote or the decision to revoke the pork board's powers?
Do you see any similarities with the ridiculous process and subsequent delay in re-certifying the three general farm organizations? The NFU shenanigans opened the door and the government saw an opportunity.
Once stable stable funding gets killed and make no mistake that's where this review of GFOs charade is headed, farmers may finally realize what has happened. By then of course it will be too late.
Actually farmers and some who speak for farmers are really egging the government on. Just look at some of the people here bashing the boards and GFOs and especially supply management. They are a lot more destructive than government. The quota system is not perfect (neither is the US system unless you are a fan of subsidies and bankruptcy) but it is a concept that's worth trying to improve. If you think farming is just about money try dairy farming in China for a while you'll do fine with a little assistance from melamine.
Have aThanksgiving Audit by the head legal govt man in ontario and make an example for their actions, have you ever noticed politicans civil servants never serve time in jail
seems Sean has only been farming 11yrs, my my what you have not seen my boy....you think that with your vast farming knowledge of 11yrs of farming that you can preach and tell us multi generational farmers how and what we must do to succeed? listen buddy boy we have succeeded and done well and we have weathered many brutal storms that you have not even seen yet, I would say the last 11 yrs have been a gentle farming ride compared to what some of us have experienced in the last 40. Supply Management was created to fix the exact problem facing the hog and beef industry today, wild price swings, bankruptcy, poor markets, no support, flooding imports, this because everyone could just grow what they wanted how they wanted and this is what you in your young un educated wisdom want....figures the young king trying to tell us elders how wrong everything is and how way smarter you are compared to us. FOOL
and your 2200 acres does not impress anyone, down here in southern ontario with land rent and competition from fruits and vegetables creating high rent on its own without SM you sir would be hard pressed to make a dime on that acreage
mind your elders
You have farmed 11 years of very low interest, try farming or starting out when the interest was 20 + percent. Stop and figure out how much your interest would be on your land loans alone not counting machinery interest and principal payments. Try and buy all your land and etc. on a credit card and pay the payments, people that has credit card debts cannot even pay it off for the interest alone kills them no different than 20 + years ago.
Free access to milking cows doesn,t mean the price you get for your milk now will remain the same as it does now, it is no different than the hogs or beef up down and out.
i made it through BSE i had 50 holstein heifers i paid $500 each as week olds and then kept them till they were fresh cows and sold them for $300 - $450 each, i lost money but i didnt burden the tax payers one ounce, it was my choice to choose farming as my livelyhood and if i can't make a living from it then i should sell out and get a different career. I have sold market hogs for $80.00 each when it cost me $125 per hog to raise, But i set a side some money in the better years to ensure i was covered in the periods that were unprofitable and i never asked for government money. Why should the tax payers be f I haveorced to pay my way if my business model doesnt work ???? I have also spent a lot of time finding specialty markets and not relying heavily on commodity markets and created my own business risk mangement by not having all my eggs in one basket and that hasn't cost the tax payers a single penny. There isn't a single other industry that is privately owned that has monoply protection that supply management has.
people can argue all they want, at the end of the day supply managed farmers make up a tiny percent of all the farms in Ontario. We have around 55,000 farms in total in Ontario and out of those maybe there are 8% of them are supply managed, so lets cut the BS there are a lot of farmers in Ontario making it happen with out a monopoly. The recent goat boards votes showed producers are not interested in more controls they want to have free enterprize, Goat producers don't need supply managment to make it work so why does cows milk ???
you can talk in circles all you want but lets face it supply management has an unfair advantage against every other farming system in Canada and there is no incentive for the boards to change.
the writing is all over the wall supply management will end and we will see that end in the next decade,the conservative government can easily win in any rural riding with out the votes of supply managed farms, just as they did in western Canada in the wheat growing areas, disgruntle wheat farmers made up such a small voting block that there votes weren't needed to win the election.
Had the marketing boards been proactive a long time ago they could of avoided all of this but they weren't and now they will pay the price for there lack of forward thinking....
Sean McGivern
PFO
Had the marketing boards been proactive a long time ago they could of avoided all of this but they weren't and now they will pay the price for there lack of forward thinking....
you are right on the above Mr PFo but you have alot to learn about whatis good for farming
Nothing infuriates non-supply managed farmers, especially younger ones, more than your type of patronizing, dismissive, and completely-condescending attitude. More to the point, you have clearly demonstrated exactly why supply management isn't well-liked and won't be missed, as well as exactly why any sort of quota buyout will be strongly opposed in the farm community. Ironically, you have also, probably quite-inadvertently, clearly demonstrated that "there's no fool like an old fool". The issue, as both Mr. McGivern and I have alluded to, on any number of occasions, is the fact that supply management has "painted itself" into a demographic corner in which older supply managed farmers not only have a legislatively-granted strangle-hold on assets and purchasing power in any community in which they live, they also believe they have a strangle-hold on the truth, and that younger, non-supply managed farmers don't know anything. The true fools, at any age, are those who believe that forcing Ontario consumers to pay almost 38% more for milk than US consumers, is either sustainable, or good public policy. The true fools, at any age, are also those who believe that using legislation to pit farmers against one another is either sustainable, or good public policy. The tragedy of supply management is that it pits older farmers against younger farmers - it's the type of battle old people always lose, and in this case, it will be deservedly-so, and there will be no sympathy for the losers whatsoever.
Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON
What a bunch of BS. Young farmers- old farmers if all people have to write in and talk about how much better the young is or old is so much better than the other. As far as I,m concerned it sounds like a bunch of little kids in the sand box fighting a war of words and has no brains to live their life because it awful short.
Look at the main thing in this country is the big companies or corperations rule Canada, doesn,t matter if,s farms, auto, processors, whatever they have the final say in what the goverment does.
Greed is the problem with the people today everyone wants everything right now and the don,t want to work or wait for it doesn,t matter who they step on as long as they get it.
If you,re lucky to get the breaks in life fine don,t go knocking someone else who hasn,t had the luck to have a big bank account or a big chunk of land ,because it all comes down to luck in the end and be lucky enough to have your health.
So instead of getting the whiner of the year award or the big pat on your back just be thankful that you were lucky enough to not have a any major problem in your adventure in life.
we need more common sense post like this to embarrass farm leaders
You said alot of good things about PFO not getting it correct they need to be told they have not done their home work but neither has ofa cffo nfu and they have experience with greed and should know better
for your information McGivern the supply managed sectors are innovative and successful and no one is complaining or wanting drastic changes, it works!! your wanting to grow whatever you want whenever you want is a throwback to the 50s something you know nothing of, they starved back then and they went bankrupt!! how dare you implore that these sectors are archaic where there is no innovation or hard working people. "really make a go of it" in the US a few years back they where swimming in milk and all going broke! your a bit out of touch of reality I would never ever support you and so would none of my farming colleagues
digusted farmer with PFO
I would love to see your facts to support your claims, we produced and sold more milk and dairy products in 1950 when Canada was half the population it is today then we do in 2012 with double the popluation osince 1950. Supply management only rewards a very select few at the cost of the rest of the farming community any one with the most basic understanding of economic can easily understand that...
I can assure you there are many other people who share my views on SM
and the tide is turning and its just a matter of time that Canada as the last country in the world to hold on to supply mangement will also let it go, regardless if you support or don't support SM its going to end every great empire falls and is rebuilt and this will be true for SM. If you can't make a living from farming then just dont farm its that simple,Just have a few acres grow a garden and keep a few hens if that turns your crank and get a job in town but don't ask me as a tax payer to use my tax dollars or my food dollars to unwilling support your farming system or lifestyle, SHAME ON YOU >>>> so with your logic maybe we should use our tax dollars to propt up indepentend gas stations ? there important to aren't they ? or what about local food retailers maybe we should propt them up to from using our tax dollars ??? and protect them the loblaws of the world. its funny how there is only support to propt up 10,000 or so supply managed farms but nothing else, your logic is so out of touch with reality.
Sean McGivern
PFO
From what I read on this website PFO will soon be a distant memory. PFO must stand for Pay Farmers less in Ontario.Supply Management will evolve but it is not going anywhere.period
John Van Dyk
Every week since the PFO started back in March of this year we have had more and more farmers joining every week and just last week we recieved a $1,000 donation form a Toronto consumer owned grocery store that wanted to help give farmers back their rights to produce food for willing consumers. The PFO has been overwhelmed with the positive response farmers, believe it or not Mr. VanDyk most farmers are not in support of your communist style supply management, and there is zero support in the USA to start a supply there either.
Mr VanDyk I know zero about you but from your comments it would lead me to believe that your likely a large scale dairy or feather farmer and that you have zero support for diversified family farms and that you think only massive monoculture farms should be the ones to produce our food. I have spent a lot of time volunteering to support different farm organizations and food projects across Ontario and have a lot of direct connections to consumers, maybe you should book a day off and get out and talk to people about the type of food they want and how they want it produced, because you seem so far removed from reality and so out of touch with how the world is changing and it would seem that your stuck in the past...
Sean McGivern
PFO
Comments like these just tells me that you and your Organization will never get anywhere with influencing ANY policy. First rule of thumb is never assume what another thinks.
John Van Dyk
Well if it walks like a duck, and its talks likes a duck, and it looks like a duck, there is a high probability that its a DUCK.
is it any wonder why i would of pegged you any different ????
Well Mr.VanDyk, please do fill us all in on how the world of farming should be run in Ontario you seem to have all the answers pent up inside and you have some thing to say about every little comment that gets posted on here, So the soap box is all yours, were all listening ...... Because as a younger farmer, i am not interested in your style of communist dictatorship and your arguments for supporting supply management are so weak its pathetic, if you want to farm just like every other farmer who isn't involved in SM, does with out an monopoly protecting them, then i applaud you, but if you cant farm with out the government protecting you with a closed door monopoly, then just stop farming its that simple, sell out move to town and get a 9 - 5 Job. In the past you've been rather happy to suggest that people like myself should move to the USA and farm there, well here is some advice for you Sir, stop farming if you can't handle the free market like every other farmers does, then just pack up and move to town.
You've got all the answers maybe you could be re-skill your self and be a consultant ??? or a bureaucrat ??? seems like those jobs would be well suited for your personality and your thinking.
lesson to be learned is that we are all entitled to our own opinions and in this country we operate in the courts of public opinion that is how our politicians are elected and there is very little public support for Supply Management, even well known Liberals are jumping on the change supply management band wagon.
We live in an age in time where farmers have many tools at their finger tips and there is no reason Canadian farmers cant build their own cooperative milk plants and establish their own distribution systems and be in control of their future.
Supply management is on its way out the door and if your to blind to see that, then i have little pity for you Sir.
TPP is going to slowly erode away the domestic controls and before you know it SM will not have a leg to stand on and you and your fellow cronies will be there wondering what ever happened, thinking and wondering and saying, why didn't any one warn us that the end was in sight, Your logic of continually publically denying that supply management is never going to end and always saying it's here to stay, show you've taken an approach to put your head in the sand and stomping your feet like an unlearned small child will until they get there own way, would leave one wondering if you are logic isn't delusional at best.
If you can't see supply management is on its way out... well lad then there isn't a soul in this world who can prepare you for plan B.
Sean McGivern
PFO
Keep up the good work Sean !,lots of support here
Don't let the patronizing folks get you down. Last time I checked, we in Canada are still allowed to express our opinions. Let's be clear, I don't necessarily agree with all of Sean's thoughts or ideas, however, he certainly makes you think and at least look at another point of view.
It IS surprising to me how many are lamenting that we need to attract more young people to farming, farm orgs, boards,etc., yet when someone who is under 40 does take the time to comment, be part of an org and then DARE to question part of the established, entrenched way things have been done one gets called "young" farmer. I can almost envision them patting you on the head, giving you a lollipop and sending you on your way.
Sean has been farming for 11 years. I think he has earned the right to make some observations.
It is attitudes as described above which DISCOURAGE young people from getting involved in the first place.
Junior Farmers just received $$$$ to do something, can't remember what, obviously something for young farmers. Sigh. Another study. The Feds have done a tour recently (last few years) to determine what are the obstacles for people to get into farming. OFA every few years conducts some sort of survey/study. There is the CYFF and the OYFF folks could tap into. I guess when no one really has an answer they just keep studying it?
At 42 I am the youngest active director on our board at the county level. Yes. it is ag related. 2 or 3 in their 50's, a bunch in their 60's and then some into their 70's and 80's. I can attest to the fact that in general "change" is frowned upon. But that doesn't bother me. I just keep nudging the folks along.
A change in the tone of some of the postings on this site might be in order, however. A robust discussion is great, personal attacks not so much.
Ask the young farmers in SM if they like the system and if they would like to see it gone. I would like to be in the Senate so I could get big tax free dollars , but I know that will never happen so I will have to live with what I do now cash crop.
We all can,t rake in the big bucks people like us has to work so some people doesn,t have to , we all hope for the great day of unlimit money.
Thats the same logic as saying ask the monarchy if they want their entitlements ended of course they dont, why would they ?
No matter which side of the supply managment debate your on you have realize and admit that SM farms have a disadvantage over non SM farms and its a major Advantage.
I would really love for some one to explain to me about all of the hand outs and subsidy money that i hear SM supporters claim that NON Supply managed farms are getting, Because i can't seem to track down any farmers in my region who are getting all this subsidy money, that SM farmers claim non supply managed farmers are getting.
some body please help me out on this one ???? any one ???
Sean McGivern
PFO
That,s like saying the goverment workers and the union workers will say they will give up their pensions so the rest of the workers will be on the same level playing field when they retire. What a bunch of crap , there is no way nobody wants to give up what they or the ones before them fought to get so their life will be better.
Why don,t the goverment own all the farms and land and pay the people the same wage so they will be all happy that their wage is the same which may be very little.
It looks like commy to me, wish the people will just get a life and quit being so bitter that someone is making more than they are doesn,t matter if they are 20 or 70 years old. Every age deserves to work if they want and not roll over and play dead because they hit over 50 and some young guy wants to take over and have what he had after working most of his life.
You made good statements in your post you are correct about the old people not wanting change. they screwed it up . unfortunately the boards and leaders that screw things up is not made of the most wise people of farming.
The problems of farming will never be changed with the present way of having selfcentered older leaders but there is a danger of letting the young leaders with 10 years thinking they are wise enough to have vision.
As an example the go go days of the early 70s when it boomed bad management of govt and farmleaders resulted in the busts of the 80s and Ontario farmers wanted Debt review . The signs of warning were there,,, people tried to make change but hard headed leaders didnt and now we hqve 2012 $14000 land $7.50 corn. I wonder if mr pfo knows about penny auctions?
Unfortunately human nature doesnt bring in the intrenched wiser farmers to( who are too busy runing teir operations) boards. Look around your community the hard core progressive farmer be it 1st 2nd generation does not in most cases get invovlved with leadership unless they get connections, and personal gain. You can rule out "farmers working for farmers" because while you are out working for them some of them are out trying to rent farms you have and steal them, happens everyday! The model of farming has changed and what was a standard and benchmark 20 to 40 years ago is gone, basic because the character of farmers carrying for neighbours,rural improvement is gone because we have a new breed of farmer
If you look at the agri related infrasture that was setup in the last 75 years , we today cannot maintain it with out loans, this is bad every body wants to turn there head and not face this issue. Everybody wants a bigger paycheck!
i guess we will have to wait to see if PFO is right for the majority of farmers , the betterment of agriculture, but remember HISTORY REPEATS ITS SELF
I heard a farmer a few years back bragging about helping a farmer by taking his crops off when he was sick without him asking. The following year I heard he ended up buying the farm from him, alot of people will only give a helping hand if they think that there is something for them down the road. Human nature what some people call it ,and I have some other words for it GREED and UNDERHANDED SNEAK.
What a pile of crap you write.Government supports supply management and it will keep evolving.You rant like a little child and that is why PFO WILL FAIL.When you have something constructive to add to Ontario's farming community maybe some real dialogue can take place.
John Van Dyk
John is that really your best rebutal, because if thats the best you can come back with as a reply to my opinions and your the voice of support for supply managment, then wow, the SM sector really is in a down ward spin. Where are your facts to support your opinions ?
The best both "Francis" and Mr. Van Dyk seem to be able to muster, is the traditional supply management strategy - shoot the messenger. Their style of advocacy, which is to patronize, and/or personally attack, anyone who disagrees with the system of legislated entitlements which guarantees supply managed farmers an advantage over every other sector of agriculture, is exactly the reason why there not only won't be anyone under 40 on the bus the next time supply management has a rally, it's also the reason there will be strident opposition to any sort of quota buy-out when, not if, supply management is about to lose its legislated advantages. More to the point, neither "Francis" nor Mr. Van Dyk seems to be able to explain why forcing Ontario consumers to pay almost 38% more for milk than US consumers, is a sign of a system which is evolving, rather than a sytem which is already a wretched obscenity. In addition, neither "Francis" nor Mr. Van Dyk seems to be able to explain why alienating an entire generation of non-supply managed farmers is a sign of a system which is evolving, rather than a system which is destined to be overthrown by that generation at the first available opportunity.
Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON
What you have not been able to figure out is that if supply management were to go (which it is not being talked about by anyone with credibility) is that Canadian dairy ,goat and sheep farmers would be pretty much wiped out.Compare goat and sheep milk prices in Canada vs U.S. and you will find the same price difference.Your argument about a younger generation not being able to enter is no different than a young farmer wanting to become a cash crop farmer.Your a black spot on Ontario 's agriculture Mr. Thompson
I am not sure i follow your thinking, how would Canadian dairy goat and dairy sheep farmers be wiped out ? if supply management ended ?, neither of these two industries are involved in supply management and currently those products are free to enter into Canada as it stands now and there are several imported chesses coming in, its only recently we have been nearly filling the domestic needs for goat and sheep milk. You appear to be the fearmonger not Mr.Thompson.
Think about it,why are goat and sheep milk prices higher in Canada because retailers can set a higher price point because supply management exists.If goat and sheep milk were the same price as U.S. then there would be no impact.That is exactly why tons of imports come in is because of Canada's higher price point on just about everything.In your eyes you believe that by getting rid of supply management consumers in Ontario will enjoy the subsidized prices that the Americans have and if they did then all classes of dairy products would be lowered including goat and sheep and therefore the ability for Canadian farmers to compete would definetly be threatened.
John Van Dyk
Once again all speculation, please provide proof that Goat and Sheep milk prices are much lower in the USA ?if this was the case then processors would just simply import it into Canada but since we have Hundreds of farmers in Ontario producing milk it proves they can't get it cheaper in the USA because they could they surely wouldn't be having it produced here, that would just be bad economics wouldn't it ? Unless they were buying the raw product here because they more concerned about other issues or for other ethical reasons, out side of price.
Sean McGivern
PFO
Steve You need to price more than just milk . There are all kinds of things made here that can be bought for less across the border . Price farm equipment parts and you will get a wake up call . Chop saw wheels made in Canada can be bought in Michigan for $5 but cost $15 here . This while the dollar is at par . That is a little more than 38% . Your never ending dribble about the price of milk is getting old .
Why would you like to see the safe gaurds of SM and the profit making ability taken away . Why you have a wish to turn SM in to the yo-yo pricing and money loosing whoa is me I need help pork industry is beyond me . Yet while pork producers are whining some of them are building barns ( and yes there are new hog barns being built and priced ) , buying new equipment and buying high priced land . All this while losing money tells me there is some thing wrong that is a much deeper or bigger problem than you the economist can see .
I don't recall seeing "DOWN with Supply Management " painted on the Equity Trailer that you towed around the province .
If you really wanted to help young people get a start in farming you would ask for caps on farm programs , changes to the tax laws , and CHANGES to SM but not the destruction of SM . A cap on programs of say 500 acres would do much more to help young farmers enter the business . SM works because there is not a flood of product on the market . Ask a hog farmer and if he is honest he can't wait for one of his fellow pork farmers to go broke so he can buy him out and or hope for an up price swing in the market . Over the years pork production ( # of hogs ) has gone down while the actual pounds of pork has not which I was told by some who sits on the pork board . How well did the pork buy out program work there ?
So if you want SM gone then you had better be ready for a huge race to the bottom for all commoditties . Sm was started because there was no money in producing and no regulation of those products . Pork for example has said it can compete with any countries cost of production . So that means you take the price that is being offered and do it . Don't complain about the cost of your feed , drugs and what ever else . Just do it !! The only logical complaint I have heard for a while was when the Beginning Farmers complained that they were left out of the OCHP program . They basically got told tough it is only for the big guys . Amazing how the Ministers Cash for Christmas program went to those who could still afford Christmas and some who were six feet under . Yet those who really needed it never got it .
If the demise of SM is just around the corner then I take it you are planning on where your new dairy barn is going to be built . You may as well get it built now so you are ready to go full bore when the time comes and beat the rush to be the first to complain that there is no money in it .
Francis
Francis your right, there are several things in the USA that are sold for less than they are sold for here in Canada, but the great thing about that is that we able to cross the board and buy them, unlike we able able to do with supply managed controlled products. I know of 2 people who have bought tractors in the USA because they were a better deal. So your logic once again is still not very well thought out. As for pork production we are not producing pork at record levels, who ever told you that was misinformed. Francis i have asked you several times on here and you have not once answered me why People like myself and Mr.Thompson should be the ones to find the answers to reform Supply Management, don't you think the boards should be the ones being proactive and doing this a head of time ??? before there monopolies are taken away from them ??? Its much better to be proactive then reactive and currently SM is headed in a director that is going to see them self's having to be reactive once the system is ended in the next decade or sooner, because they have been far to arrogant to develop a plan B that is in place and ready to be brought into action once needed.
Sean McGivern
PFO
First off if you go across the border for a once a year cheaper new tractor purchase what is the difference then in going across the border for a once a year cheaper milk purchase ?
I did not say that I was told that we are producing at record levels and it was a rep of pork who told me so the numbers come from their own .
Lastly you should be the one to come up with the answers for SM because you seem to think you have them all .
Francis
If you can sit in your house and go online and buy a product delivered to your house for half the price doesn,t matter where it is so why not. I,ve seen where I could buy a product at home for 1200 hundred and bought the same thing delivered to my home for 675$ and not have to spend a dime on gas. There is no way someone should be charging you like that and say you should be shopping local, I bet they would not be out buying for themself without checking out where to buy the cheapest.
We go across the border to buy or look for something different that we can,t find at home , I prefer to shop at home but I don,t like to be screwed out of my money either it,s hard enough to come by.
Why is so much bitching going on ,on this better farming pages about sm farmers. The ones that want to see it gone so bad get 40,000 people together and go to Ottawa and demand that they get rid of it. I,m for one is sick and tired of hearing a couple of people whining all the time about it and think the rest of the farming community is right behind them.
I think its about time to either put up or shut up and get along and try to come up with some ideas that with keep the whole country side working together instesd of a few that wants to control it all.
Greedy farmers all over and they are getting greedier by the minute, read the farm pappers about the 1,000 + head pig barnes , chicken , eggs ,dairy , yes cash croppers and the big bins that holds 1,000,s of tons of crop and where else should the pointer should be pointed at.
So how are a young guy going to make his mark in starting farming just starting out and have no family in any of the mention above .
So quit writing the same crap and do the young future wantabe farmer a big favour and be a real hero and come up with an idea or 2 to really help them out.
Its going to take one heck of an idea because the world is ran by big corperations, at less do in Canada unlike alot of places in the world there,re not killing us all off, so be thankful of the people who died for us that we can have a choice at what we want too do.
Sean .... Now come on I think you must have at one time cut of the oxy going to your pea . At 33 you are not young you are middle aged . Stephen is old and next thing to collecting a pension cheque .
You can spin things all you want . I can hear it now ... I am young in the farm community . Yes you are but people are living longer and better lives and the farm work is not what it was 50 or more years ago either . Grandpa could still work circles around you .
Francis
Francis, i am not sure how old you are but at what ever age you are your comments are always about personal jabs and thoughtless comments to acttack indivuals, thus far i have never once heard you make a comment about a single issue that has any depth to it that will lead to any out come that will benefit the farming community, you simply sit in the cheap seats and burst out with ridduclas comments that add zero to the conversation. Lets hear your plan for the future of agriculture in Ontario, you know clearly where both Steven and i stand, so lets here where you stand, the soap box is all yours lad.
Sean McGivern
PFO
It is better to know the devil you know than the devil you dont and SM is bad but we know it and you mr young PFO we dont
really Stephen come on, your rants and attitudes on supply management are quite over the top along with McGivern, comparing SM to ruining the rural country side is quite appalling. And your arguments about unfairness is not justified either. Big oil, big industry carries the same type of monopolies as SM but for some reason you don t cry and whine about all that is it simply because your next door to a prosperous business? If i wanted to build a car do you think it would be a fair business against the likes of Toyota with all their government kick backs? or start a retail store with the likes of Wal Mart around how many people lost their livelyhoods in that debacle when wal mart came to town? but its the way business works, progress to some i guess...but you two with your devastation of SM and free trade just wait and see....if that comes the US will bury you in grains, milk, meat and whatever else and China also and happy trails to you after that, maybe you two should realize we are nothing here in canada in the world ag market one state in the US can bury us in goods and i guess thats what both of you want... your dreams of independence and equality will be wiped out by a much bigger powerfull and very greedy partner and good luck to you then. I guess its going to be a race to the bottom as people like you will be never satisfied unless we are all broke, this is the way of the young ?? bravo
why is it that McGivern and Thompson have so much free time to write these blogs anyway? don t you boys have anything better to do?
Too many farmers just can't bring themselves to accept that support for supply management, is dying, quite-literally, and quite-understandably, one funeral at a time. That's not over-the-top; it's the reality which can be expected when legislation allows one group of farmers to run rough-shod over other groups of farmers for the better part of a lifetime. Furthermore, no amount of protectionist fearmongering by supply management supporters is going to change the fact supply management is, as Mr. McGivern has noted, just another one of those "baby-boomer" things which, like fully-indexed pensions, will die with that generation.
Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON
Your right on when you talk about runing the rural coutry side, there was a time when rural Ontario had a creamery in every town and there were lots of food options since the DFO has handed over all of the food processing to multinational food corporations and now we have kraft food slices rather then top quality cheddar.
I tried to see the PFO website today and it didn't appear to work?
The PFO Facebook is a closed group ?
I remember the PFO president stating that it was a real farm organization....looks like a small self interest club
Stan Holmes
OMG I truly cannot beleive the attitudes of what i guess some would call tomorrows farm leaders?? This PFO thing is a disaster with a leader that s not in touch with reality at all. Whats next full scale revolution? boy how discouraging it is to read these articles, time to cancel my subsricptions to all farm magazines the just seem to enjoy antagonizing and embelishing this type of absolute garbage. What a shame to read
my son and many friends of his are all actively involved in their respective dairy, cash crop, specialty crop and feather type farms and they all enjoy the systems they are each in, no complaints here I don t know where all this mis information about young farmers comes from, I know many young boys all working on their family farms either involved financially or partners in the corporation. These gentlemen so outspoken about the problems of agriculture are merely jealous radicals looking for a fight and the only thing we can do is print out these blogs and bring to the local coffee shop so all can see what they really are....its sad really, we need more positive forward thinking leaders not this rabble.
average farmer
from the young generation that I have spoken with the question is WHY? why farm? to much uncertainty, to many hours, return? maybe, maybe not, so why? most of these young people are educated and see a more prosperous future somewhere else than gambling the rest of your life with weather, markets, to much uncertainty, farming is not for the faint of heart. These guys screaming to end supply management and go back to the old days....well boy good luck farming is risky enough at least the dairy and feather business is something you can put a number to and thats a damn sight better than risking all for the hours and hard work you gotta put in. No wonder the young shy away from it all
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