Questions missed the deadline says Pullet Growers chair

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Mr DeWeerd might want to brush up on "the court of public opinion". Mr Duffy et all PC's in government are recently wishing they had.

Oh yes Wynn has some more and recent issues with the court of public opinion concerning snail mail postage too.

The advent of internet fast opinion and response, direct to your left pocket on your smart phone most anywhere, is changing the expectations of accountability, access and truth expected of those who represent.

According to the numbers, 550 pullet growers seem to see no reason why they can't force over 33 million Canadians to pay more, simply because 550 pullet growers want them to. Pullet growers don't seem to understand that the only time "David" beat "Goliath" was in the Bible - the rest of the time the interests of 33 million take, and must take, priority over the greed of 550. Primary agriculture in Canada is, indeed, living a complete fantasy-land.

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

Yeah, because the Canadian consumer doesn't want to pay for over-priced Pullets?? l hate when the price of Pullets go up in the stores ! ..geeez!

I really hate it when farmers try to be smart-ass about things - increased pullet costs become an increased cost of production for farmers with laying hens, and this cost gets passed on to consumers. It's the smug and dismissive - "look at us, aren't we wonderful?" mentality on the part of farmers who don't care one iota that they are screwing over 33 million consumers, which has led supply management to not be not well-liked.

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

If there is an increased pullet cost then it should be passed on to the consumer! What excatly is wrong with that? The same with increased cost of production with layer hens.What industry in this Country, big or small can continue without passing cost of production onto the consumer...besides the Beef and Pork sectors!

In the real world, nobody cares about anyone's cost of production, nor should they. For example, if Canadian farmers were forced to pay almost 38% more for diesel fuel than US farmers, the way Ontario consumers are forced to pay almost 38% more for milk than US consumers, every smug Canadian farmer who sees nothing wrong with screwing our consumers might start to see the light. Farmers are really good at the double standard of being able to dish it out to others, but unable to tolerate it when it is being done to them. Besides all that, our beef and pork farmers live in the real world where consumers and the marketplace rule, while our dairy and poultry farmers live in a fantasy land where they're the only people who matter.

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

Fuel is more expensive in Canada vs U.S. , yet no level playing field lobby. The same goes for grain prices, corn has been cheaper in Canada for a couple of years now yet no level playing field lobby.
Canada gets more support on livestock and less support on grains than U.S. farmers yet no level playing field lobby. And the list goes on and on!

When farmers start going to the US to buy diesel fuel the way consumers go to the US to buy dairy and poultry products, your point might be valid, but until then, it's not.

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

Canadian farmers do use U.S. diesel and gasoline each and every time they pay uncle Sam a visit to get their much cheaper good used equipment and repair parts at half the price of Ontario's. Probably some import restriction ( as with S.M. )or tax that effectively prevents large quantities of Diesel coming back into Canada. Remember the U.S. tax incentives and write offs effectively pay them to buy new equipment and saturate the market with hand me downs.

Canadians near (and far) would do a lot more cross-border shopping if the restrictions were not in place, its a simple small town vs Large city scenario, where the small town (Canada) can't compete with the volume buying power of the large city (US)

I mean, really, how obtuse can you get? - It's all about the ability of about 15,000 Canadian farmers to gouge over 33 million consumers, and, at the same time, wreak havoc on the rest of the farm community by virtue of incomes and purchasing power available to them alone. I'm using diesel fuel as a hypothetical example of the "everybody else but me needs to pay full-price" mind-set of Canadian farmers, yet it appears farmers are far-more intent on nit-picking than understanding even the smallest portion of the "big-picture". I think, however, you inadvertently put your finger on the problem which is that Canadian farmers, including dairy and poultry farmers, see nothing wrong with going to the US when it suits their wallets to do so, but God-forbid any Canadian consumer of dairy and poultry products from doing the same thing. Instead of wallowing in the syrupy nonsense of things like "God made a farmer", the true lyrics of any such song about Canadian farmers would be "God made a hypocrite".

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

You do not have to go to the US for fuel . Any one live near an Indian reserve ? The price there is cheaper ! And yes consumers go across but not for the SM goods but every thing else that is priced cheaper there and exported there from Canadian manufacturers . Give your pony a rest . It is not just SM !!

Unsigned personal attack deleted.

Consumers may not care about cost of production but the farmer sure should! The cost of production in many cases is what keeps a lot of small farmers still in business.l would suggest if one doesn't know theirs then it wouldn't really matter anyway, kind of like back when the Federal Government was sending 80 cents of every Agr support $1.00 to the Prairie grain farmers,they didn't really care about their cost of production they walked to the mailbox!!

If by attitude of entitlement you mean they have the smarts to know which system works and which does NOT, then yes they have attitude! l thank our Fathers for making the right decisions back in the 60's, certainly as dairy farmers back then they could see it wasn't working and made the Supply Management choice and it was the best farm decision they ever made, for them and their families, oh, sure there were years when the other farm sectors appeared to be doing better, l remember the new pig barn open-house the next road over(maybe 15 years ago) it was all new hi-tech, state of the art, liquid manure which was relatively new, lunch room and showers for the employee's, we all ooh and ahhh'ed, it now sits empty, their kids never had a chance! they rent the land and are stress free.
Dairy in Perth.

Too many hog barns were built a dozen years ago because people couldn't afford to get into dairy, including clients of mine whose parents sold their dairy quota years earlier. They still feed pigs, but have two off-farm incomes to make it happen - oh, yes, they're in their early 40s, and HATE supply management with a passion. The dairy industry can be as smug, and as dismissive as they want to be about their ability to have an absolute advantage over consumers and other farmers, but your "right" decisions were lucky decisions because this entitlement and special treatment of a minority should have ended years ago. These clients, and many others their age, can't wait to see supply management end, and your attitude is exactly why the buses will be empty the next time supply management plans a rally in Ottawa, and also exactly why any plans for a quota buyout will be fiercely opposed in the farm community.

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

33 million canadians never buy pullets only the egg layer farmers who have quota. i don't blame the pullet growers for doing this.

Do you think the money to support the whole system comes from the Fairy God Mother? No, it all comes from the 33 million Canadians that are forced to pay...unless they live close to the US border.

Why would 33 million people would want to buy pullets, so they could sit at home every day and feed and look after them. Most people don,t farm ,because they don,t want to.

MANY people would like to farm ,but, they can't afford to pay for the RIGHT to farm as dictated by the SM cartel.
Yes--they can purchase a few acres and raise a few beef,hogs,chickens , goats, buffalo or antelope and take advantage of not having to pay taxes - but are Not ALLOWED to tap into all the government largess being doled out to the millionaire 'protected ones'.
It is a very strange system.

Sure, l know a lot of would-be farmers but then you explain to them that there are no long weekends, no paid holiday's, no sick days, no Christmas bonus and then add on to the fact that when you want a holiday you have to plan it 6 months in advance....and suddenly their 9-5 job looks pretty good.

The concept of a 9 - 5 job disappeared years ago, and along with it, a lot of benefits, including any sort of job security - that's why, for example, my well-educated 25-year old daughter is living, and working, in Korea, and two of her friends are doing the same thing in Australia and Hong Kong respectively. In addition, if you do have a job, and want to get ahead, you're going to have to work well-more than 60 hours a week (for 37.5 hours pay) doing it. However, most of this so-called Generation Y is struggling to get any sort of permanent job, and most of them detest those of their friends who were born with "quota under their pillow" and who, therefore, do get long weekends, sick days, and every day is a paid holiday, especially when, all too-often, hired workers do all the work anyway. But then again, quota can, and should, disappear in as much time as it takes any manufacturing company to downsize and move somewhere else. All of which makes farming look not-too-bad by comparison, except for the horrifying barriers to entry caused by supply management bidding up the price of land - get rid of supply management, and we'll have all sorts of new farmers, and good farmers at that.

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

"all sorts of new farmers"? l think you must have it backwards! They don't have Supply Management south of the border yet have lost over 80,000 dairy farms in the last 20 years, that's not excatly holding true to your way of thinking.l don't think you understand, whether you have supply management or not it takes money to start any farm nowdays, why do you think we have so many immigrant farmers? because most have sold their farm back in the old Country at good prices and bought in big here.Some people are in dreamland if they think they can just sell their house in the city and buy a small farm and wait for the money to roll in....keep dreaming.

I have a whole slew of tax clients in their 20s who aspire to farm, but simply cannot because supply management is holding the price of farmland at anywhere up to fifty times earnings, and they don't hesitate to point the finger of blame directly at supply management. The clients I have in their 30s and early 40s who farm, typically also have an off-farm job paying well-over $100,000 per year, and they need this level of off-farm income to be able to compete with people their age who were born with quota under their pillow, and they, too, aren't hesitant at pointing the finger of blame at supply management.
A more-telling indicator of the approaching problems facing supply management is in this week's Ontario Farmer - the first is a letter from the Practical Farmers of Ontario endorsing the motion made by Ontario Pork at its annual meeting to call on government to promote trade ahead of protectionism for dairy and poultry farmers. The second is a story about Lambton County farmers' meeting with their MP and MPP - the pork representative, a Mr. Van Kessel, made it abundantly clear that pork farmers are tired of playing second fiddle to supply management. If dairy and poultry farmers aren't able to figure their days of pampered luxury are coming to a close, then nobody need feel sorry for them when it does - especially those young farmers chomping at the bit waiting for the chance to produce milk at the world price.

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

If these young people are waiting then they are waisting precious time . They can move elsewhere in the world and produce milk at the world price . Nothing stopping them !

Why move elsewhere when you can stay here and fight to get rid of the double standard? Do you not see that your attitude is exactly why supply management is not well-liked, and will not be missed?

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

They waited well over 40 years to start that fight, if they are that slow they deserve to be where they are.You keep harping on that Supply management is not well liked, well not a lot in this community miss the smell of liguid pig manure and how clings to everything and it IS not missed!

Yes get rid of that pig manure...we all know cow manure and chicken manure don't stink...right?

Like you and waste valuable years that would be better spent paying down their debt . You Rock !! Your advice is good economic advice coming from your economic back ground right ?? Me thinks not !

l'm truly embarrassed for Ontario Pork if they have in anyway solicited the support of a wet-behind-the-ears group such as Practical farmers of Ont.This is a organization (and l use that word loosely) that has as many members as the local "friends of the Library" chapter.The wieght of any words they have to say is completly worthless! What's next,petitioning the Rhino Party to come out against Supply Management...even their leaders aren't that stupid.

Most would be farmers want the income when times are good but not the work , hours and hardship that happens when times are not so good . Many young people today want to start out in life where mom and dad are after many years of working their tails off to get things paid and starting to enjoy the many things they did not have the money to afford before .

If a working stiff has to make more money to survive it is the end of the world and they get their union to fight for a raise . Heaven forbid they would get a second job . But the reality of the farm life has been for years to have a second income for the father and a full time job for the Mrs. . Something is just not right with this picture !

As a society we are full of want and think it is deserved and an entitlement . Food , Air and Water are a necessity . Every thing else is a bonus ! Just ask some one living in India , Africa or on the street !

Lots of 20 years old would like to milk cows go south and farm without quota and sell at world price. Tired of reading some people blaming SM farmers for the trouble of the rest of the farmers, how many out there would like to get what they get and not world prices. Ask them if they would love to farm like them and you would get 100% yes , knowing what your pay will be and knowing that this month or year you will not farm at a loss. The big SM farmers do get more than their share of money from the government and the small guys lose out, but hey there,s losers and there is winners. All the small guys to do is keep up the best they can do and hope for better luck next time, ever notice that there are fewer small companies and bigger companies out there. Its not just farming that has the ones starting out and being stepped on by the big guy .

It never takes a supply management supporter any time at all to portray non-supply managed farmers as "losers" - and that dismissive attitude permeates all the way through Canadian agriculture, and is exactly why supply management is not well-liked, and will not be missed. While winning and/or losing a game isn't a big deal, being bullied for one's entire lifetime by the "winners", is.

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

The Practical Farmers of Ontario wishes to support Ontario Pork’s recent approved resolution pertaining to supply management, for the following reasons.
As a general farm organization the PFO has a desire to see that all farmers are treated fairly. We can only have a vibrant and sustainable farm community as long as all sectors of agriculture are treated fairly. Unfair advantage over another sector within the farm community can be easily avoided, by creating better Provincial and Federal agricultural policies which leads to a more level playing field in our domestic market.
The PFO sees ongoing issues with the unfair advantages that have been granted to supply managed farmers and corporations who own quota. Supply management has created monopolies that have allowed a certain minority of farmers to legally have mechanisms for price fixing and price discovery that are simply not allowed for other sectors of agriculture. Consumers are held hostage by being forced to pay a higher than necessary price for commodity dairy and feather products and are left with a very limited choice of options due to the high levels of corporate ownership of the processing quota here in Canada.
At the same time the rest of the farm community is unfairly disadvantaged because of the legislated price fixing that is allowed by dairy and feather producers, making it nearly impossible for the rest of agriculture to compete with them due to the high level of consumer subsidies supply managed farmers are granted by the government.
The PFO would like to see a Federal inquirer that would look into supply managements’ negative effects on small farms, rural communities and the lack of consumer choices, along with the ever increasing corporate control that is now dominating both the production and processing sectors directly linked to supply management.
Currently Canadian agriculture is highly dependent on export markets, that can have both a positive and negative outcome and past history has proven this is not the most ideal situation for farmers, but it is the situation that Canadian farmers are currently forced to work with for the foreseeable future.
The PFO does not want to see barriers put in the way of farmers receiving the best possible price for their goods either locally or internationally, for this reason the PFO is supportive of the Ontario Pork resolution that calls on the federal government to not throw the rest of agriculture under the bus in regard to international trade, simply because the supply managed sector is unwilling to make some concessions to ensure the rest of agriculture has the market access they require.

A prosperous vibrant farm community is inclusive and should work to ensure all farmers are rewarded fairly and equitably, not just certain privileged sectors. The PFO understands that well paying export markets help to maintain and keep up the domestic price for farm products here at home in this country and also help to decrease the amount of tax dollars spent on farm subsidy programs.

For these reasons the PFO can see the value in supporting Ontario Pork in regard to the Supply Management Resolution from their 2013 Annual General Meeting.
Sean McGivern, President
136135 Concession 8
Desboro, ON
N0H 1G0

Just wondering what happening to all of PFO talk and campaign to challenge the CFO wanting to raise 2000 birds...when is the tribunal hearing scheduled?
as mentioned before maybe most of PFO ( part time and Hobby farmers ) membership is happy to only raise the allowable 300 birds
g kimble

G Kimble, clearly is miss informed about the PFO organization,
Every single member of our board of Directors is a full time farm, which is representative, of the types of Members that belong to the PFO,

I am not sure why the scale or type of farming one farmer does over another makes them any more important then their counter parts, but if G Kimble thinks the PFO is a bunch of part time hobby farmer's her or she would be in correct, because clearly that is not case at all, the PFO attracts people who are passionate and serious about farming and this is why they have come together to ensure their is a place at the table for all farmers.

As the President of the PFO, I take a great deal of insult from foolish unfounded comment like those of G Kimble, I farm around 2,000 acres and run 85 cow calf pairs and long with stocker cattle, I am no "part time hobby farmer" to quote G Kimble, Both of the PFO's eastern and western Ontario VP's Farm full time raising beef cattle, hogs and crops as their only source of income and they also have their whole families involved in their farm operations, not many farmers are able to do that. Also each of the our Directors farm full time as their only source of income, some thing the PFO can be proud to say is that we truly are a grass roots farm organization run by farmers for farmers, working on issues that relevant to farmers who want to operate divers multi generational farms that can continue long after the passing of one man or woman, the true essences of what a family farm should be like.

Sean McGivern
President PFO

thank you for your rumbling description of your oorganization and membership ...but what is progress of the CFO campaign and tribunal challenge for small flock exemption.....will you have something in place for 2014??
G Kimble

Shot down I would guess .
I will hazard a guess that there is no B, C , or D plan . You got the typical political type answer from some one looking to avoid the question .

I am not sure of the status of PFO's appeal to the Tribunal, but Small Flock Poultry Farmers of Canada was good to their word, and filed their appeal to the Tribunal as of Saturday March 8, 2014. A copy of the appeal can be read or downloaded from SFPFC's Blog at

If you have comments on our appeal, either pro or con, we would be most interested in receiving them.

Glenn Black
Small Flock Poultry Farmers of Canada

So did Ontario Pork bring this resolution/subject up at one of the OASC tea parties ? Where does Ont. Beef stand on this ?

Further was there any discussion with the Minister first before it was even discussed by their board or at a meeting ? Any one with any smarts at all knows that when you bring up such a subject that you do not blind side your minister . You discuss it with the minister and their staff first . Otherwise it looks like sour grapes and gripping .

Maybe there is a sense that SM does not support OASC .

COOL is not an SM issue !

"Any one with any smarts at all knows that when you bring up such a subject that you do not blind side your minister".
Since when do producers have to go talk to some politician before expressing their concerns at their annual meeting.
You don't see to understand how an annual meeting works, or how resolutions are presented.
Cool is a free trade is SM when it gets in the way .

Who cares about blind-siding the Minister? Because every Ag Minister constantly places protectionism ahead of trade, the Ag Ministers are a big part of the problem, and need to be beaten over the head to get their attention.
It's time Ministers of Agriculture climbed out of the wallets of supply managed farmers, and realized other farmers not only exist, they matter, and they vote.

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

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