Tribunal hearing tackles Dairy Farmers of Ontario quota policies

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Very interesting a lot of the same arguments Mr black makes for his small flockers

So if these two farmers win then it would seem all you have to do to get more quota is buy an operating farm and transfer the quota to your home farm. Nothing would prevent you from later selling the farm right?
Wouldn't that allow the real value of the quota being purchased to be lumped in with the cost of the farm being purchased? In other words instead of paying say, double the going rate for quota which is barred under the current rules, wouldn't you just pay more for the land and buildings which would be legal and still achieve the same result?

CAN YOU BELEIVE THAT THESE TWO FARMERS WOULD PAY 40,000.00 KG FOR QUOTA AND BUY THE ONGOING OPERATION AND THEN SELL THE FARM FOR A LOSS JUST TO GET MORE QUOTA ?? THEY ARE DOING WHAT ALL GOOD BUSINESSES DO ,CONSOLIDATE THERE OPERATIONS AND STILL KEEP THE LAND BASE NEEDED TO FED THERE CATTLE !!THIS CONTROL SHOULD NEVER HAVE BEEN PUT IN PLACE ,OUR GROUP FAUGHT IT AND WON LATER !"!DFO DOES NOT LIKE PEOPLE TO CHALLANGE THEM ON ANYTHING ,FARMERS SHOULD KNOW BY NOW WHO THEY WORK FOR !! THE ONTARIO GOVERNMENT ,STAFF AT D.F.O AND THE BANK ,AFTER ALL FARMERS ARE LIKE SLAVES !!LIKE TO BE TOLD WHAT THEY CAN DO ,THIS COUNTRY IS WORSE THAN CHINA IN LOTS OF WAYS !! THE GOVERNMENT LIKES CONTROL OF EVERY ONE ,IF THEY CAN GET IT AND DAIRY FARMERS LOVE IT !!THAT WAY THEY DON'T HAVE TO THINK ,D.F.O. TELLS THE SHEEP WHAT THEY CAN AND WILL NEVER DO ,BUT YOU DAIRY FARMERS GET TO PAY THE BILLS !! HOW GREAT IT IS AND HOW FAST YOUR FELLOW FARMER WILL TURN ON YOU !! I AM GLAD WE HAD THE GUTS TO CHALLANGE AND WON ,SAD FOR THE SHEEP THAT FOLLOW US !! BILL DENBY EXPORTER /IMPORTER

Only you think that you challenged and won anything.
Feel bad for you.

Editor: Anonymous comment will be published if resubmitted and signed.

Nowhere in this nightmare does anyone express any concern about how the outcome of this charade, regardless of who "wins", might actually help consumers, the people who, after all, are supposed to be the people on whose behalf all of this posturing is being done.

Therefore, this Hearing, and this dispute, appear to be a classic case of arguing over what colour to re-upholster the deck chairs of the Titanic, instead of examining the larger issue of icebergs.

In a nutshell, this dispute is about how to best screw the consumer - by bigger farms, or by the status quo. If the applicants win, more money will go into their pockets because they'll have economies of scale - if the Dairy Farmers of Ontario wins, we'll all lose because smaller farms means higher costs of production, and, therefore, higher prices for consumers. Neither side cares about the consumer one iota.

What's worse is that consumers were, by definition, through the obscenity of supply management, paying for both sides to waste an entire week of everyone's time going through this exercise.

It's this "everything for us - nothing for anyone else" mindset on the part of everyone in supply management which antagonizes not just consumers, but the rest of the farm community and demonstrates, once again, just exactly why supply management is not liked, and will not be missed.

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

Quota value is one of the challenges of supply management. I think marketing boards have done a poor job of explaining this to consumers and of coming up with solutions.
Supply management is one of the great things about Canada, like medicare another great Canadian institution, it isn't perfect and until this weakness is addressed it gives some shrill critics a platform.

Its not that consumers are stupid and don't understand supply management, its that they understand it and they don't like it.

When I go to the USA and visit farm friends there they always so excited for us to sample the cheese or ice cream their coop is producing and we don't have those same options here.

There coops are actually real coops where all there milk actually go the coops own facility for processing that isn't the case here in Ontario.

you can could be a member of Gayle or Organic Meadow Coop but that doesn't mean that is where your milk is going to end up.

I know we can make it here in Canada with out supply management, it will just mean that poultry and dairy farmers will have to make a more realistic wage that is inline with the rest of agriculture and yes it will create a much different system, but just because we phase out supply management it doesn't mean we have to open the flood gates to imports either, we can phase out supply management then we can have a 10 year moratorium on imports and exports.

We will take our dairy or poultry industries to the next level under the current system it just won't happen and we wont ever be competitive or innovative at the rate we need to be to meet changing consumer demand.

Sean McGivern

(1) What is it about the powder-keg created by forcing younger non-supply managed farmers to spend their entire lives as second-class farmers and second-class citizens in their own communities that you don't understand?
(2) What is it about Ontario consumers paying almost 38% more for milk than US consumers that you don't understand?
(3) What is it about tariff-based systems being definitionally net-negative for jobs and economic activity that you don't understand?
(4) What is it about supply management's singular ability to force companies (Chobani) which might actually increase sales of dairy products to flee elsewhere that you don't understand?

In addition, comparing supply management, in any way, to medicare is stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid - medicare was founded to give poor people increased access to medical assistance, while supply management was created to restrict the ability of poor people to buy dairy and poultry products.

If artificially reducing the ability of poor people to buy dairy and poultry products is one of the "great things about Canada", then my Canada doesn't include selfish, narrow-minded, and anonymous people like you.

Thank you for your arrogance and dismissiveness, thereby giving all supply management opponents even more reason to detest it.

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

You've been on your soap box for years saying you don't understand why the system is still in place. Well young farmers don't feel second class because working for SM farmers are their preferred customers. It has been explained here why and you still don't get it. Politicians, banks agri-businesses and even consumers support dairy SM. People won't sign their name because you bully, badger, insult, berate, etc., etc., etc. anyone you perceive doesn't adore you.

Editor: partial deletion from this comment

Young non-supply managed farmers very-much do feel like they are second-class farmers and second-class citizens - I have them contact me all the time to tell me that, if anything, I don't go far enough in my criticism of supply management.

In addition, the claim that SM farmers are somehow the "preferred" customers of non-supply managed farmers is patronizing drivel, and more than claiming that "our slaves love working for us" because, as slaves, what choice do they have?

If anything, nonsense like the above posting, particularly the nonsense that in spite of being forced to pay almost 38% more for milk than US consumers, "even consumers support dairy SM" serves only to stiffen the resolve by everyone in the farm community who doesn't own quota to get rid of the quota system, and the elitist attitude of those who own it, by any means necessary, and as soon as possible.

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

I am not even going to lower myself to agree to disagree. You're previous post was not only off, it is dead wrong. Young farmers, and I know many, have stated that the SM farmers are part of the greater farm community. These young farmers have started and are starting farming with the support of dairy and feathers. Doing relief milking or chicken catching is one of the best part time jobs for aspiring young farmers. It is the furthest thing from a slave/master relationship. Farmers work along side the young people, invite them in the house for meals or a beverage when the job is done and very often show a genuine interest in their carreers and offer much advice. The relationship is more of colleagues than boss/employee and not anywhere close to slave/master

Young croppers or young beef farmers quite often rely of the bit of extra part-time work they can pick up in the off season, and it is that bit of extra that ties them over till they can market their own produce effectively.

Many of your posts are so steeped in anger you are blinded by the greater economic picture. and most of your anti SM posts don't relate to the article you are posting to either. take this very article the subject is about defining the rules with in the system, your constant nattering about needing to eliminate the system offers no credible input to this article.

If you can offer an alternate ORGANIZED marketing system for SM products than do so, but the chaos you seen to happily embrace with a complete and immediate dismantling of the present system will send all of Canada ag, ag business and ag finance in complete devastation.

In case you missed it the first time I said it, you are dead wrong and please set aside your anger and hatred because it is blinding you to the reality in Canada's greater farming community.

WHat every other farmer and business in Canada has to deal with is chaos why don't they just buy quota like we do

So J Groenewegen has a PHD in agriculture economics is an economist and economist Al Mussell both back DFO so they must support supply management !
How could any economist do such a thing ?

I believe Groenewegen testified on behalf of DFO, while Mussell and Weersink testified for the plaintiffs.

Even the economics discipline has individuals who go to "the dark side" in return for the biblical 30 pieces of silver -

Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

Editor: Deletion in accordance with our guidelines.

Still the fact is that an economist was helping to defend SM when they should in your way of thinking ALL be doing ALL they can to get rid of it .

Your biblical 30 pieces of silver example speaks volumes for past reports from GMC staff and economists in general . So who can you believe or trust any more ??

Appears to be just another case of the larger farmers wanting to be the biggest. If they are so ambitious and have the finances to be so then let them move to the USA. Supply Management was intended to allow the average size farm families to make a living. A few producers , the larger aggressive ones feel they have the RIGHTS to get whatever they want. I recall a larger operator publicly telling the export group that failed that they should leave the country. Now some are complaining that we cant expand anymore in Canada, so we ll just leave, thanks Canada.

Farmers seem to have forgotten the benefits of cooperating. Cooperatives for example have bitten the dust across Canada. Marketing boards are being attacked from within. Look at the wheat board which did so much for farmers on world markets. The pork industry in many provinces has nearly destroyed itself and dismantling their boards hasn't helped. When something has problems you address them you don't destroy them.

There are certainly some similarities between supply management issues and the ones the taxi licensing authorities are facing with Uber the dispatching app that doesn't follow the rules but seems to make some customers very happy. Taxi companies are getting together to fight Uber.

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