Impact of Liberal racehorse decision kicks in

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Ontario’s horse industry is maintaining pressure on the provincial government in the wake of partnership cancellation

photo: Brian Hodgson

Comments

Farmer owners, trainers, grooms, crop growers, blacksmiths, breeders are some of the immediate victims of the potential cancellation of the partnership. Spin off jobs will also feel the financial decline. Veterinarians, food concession stands, mechanics who services trucks and trailers, marketing venues will all suffer too. When cutback cause job loss, who pays unemployment insurance? Everyone working in urban centers. Who takes on care of previous loved and well cared for horses? If industry professionals are now fighting to feed and clothe their children, as a last resort, their horses will suffer. Who will pay to "save" these thousands of horses? The mental and physical stress put on these respectable farmers, families, and horse related people is unthinkable. City people need to recognize the impact on their pocketbook. City people should support these rallies, and voice their displeasure. Everyone should help save this industry, and allow the horse industry to continue to pay into government coffers - not collect from it. Patti Priestman

You don't seem to understand that the horse industry is a net drain on government coffers. If government was taking in more tax revenue than the $345 million it gives annually to the horse industry, it wouldn't be shutting off the tap. Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

Stephen... The horse industry is a "net drain" on the province...??? PLEASE...!!! The horse industry contributes over $2 billion to the province of Ontario each and every year on top of the $1.2 billion the gov't takes out of the slot machines in a negotiated revenue sharing deal with the horse industry for using their facilities and cannibalizing their customers. If you would like to read the real numbers of the Slots at Racetracks programand the horse industry in Ontario, please refer to the OHRIA website www.value4money.ca to see what is actually happening and in the future, please have your facts straight before you make unfounded, uneducated and inflammatory comments... Rob MacKay

If the horse racing industry contributes over $2 billion annually to the Ontario economy, then losing $345 million in income subsidies isn't going to hurt it one bit - you just can't have it both ways. Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

the horseman only receive 50 % of the $ 345 million of profit sharing aggreement that was aggreed upon in 1998. We have a signed contract with the government that is in effect till 2015. It's this contract that the government wants break ! The race tracks receive the other $ 172.50 million which they have used to renovate and in dime cases build brandnew facilities to house a casino . The government never invested 1 dollar of tax payer money set up these 17 racinos. Do you think the gibesnment has the right to opotate a business in these race tracks for free ? Their only expense is their employees ( their wages were $ 355 million ) the rhorsemam invested all of their share into the industry through purses and improving our breeding industry which is regarded as one if the best as well as our racing . The government also takes $ 261 million from the gambling dollars that is wagered on our sport . Maybe if they left our gambling dollar alone then we could afford to leave their casino revenue alone. One other thing some of that $ 2 billion spent ok our economy comes from out of province investors that will now take their money to New York and strengthen their economy at Ontarios expense.

 

Name provided without phone number.

It doesn't matter what percentage of the $345 million actually goes to horsemen, and what percentage goes to race tracks, it's still a $345 million net-negative subsidy. Furthermore, it doesn't matter what happened in 1998 - the only relevant point is that casinos now annually generate $345 million which government has the right to divert away from what you call your "sport". Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

Well you seem to have all the answers, so I have a question for you. Next year ( March 31, 2013 ) when the slots at the race tracks has ended, where do you suppose the $ 345 million you would like to call a subsidy will come from ? If you were thinking the exsiting racinos please think again. There are 17 racinos in the province at the moment with 3 closing at the end of April of this year. Now you are down to 14 racinos and the OLG just announced last night that Flamboro + Georgain Downs will loose their slot parlors at the end of March 2013. You are now down to 12 racinos, if you thought the government is done closing the remaining racinos you are wrong. I am sure the parlor located in your town will be closing as well as all the small rural town racinos. If you are lucky there might be 2 or 3 racino left by the time March 31, 2013 comes around. If 17 racinos spread across the province generated $ 1.7 billion and you eliminate 14 or 15 racinos , how much do you expect to generate ? Please keep in mind all the people you just put out of work and can no longer afford to gamble in your racinos. They will be lucky if they can afford to pay the morgage payments or put food on their table. Good luck finding the $ 345 million. Tammy Aspden, Caistor Centre

Finding the $345 million in the absence of small-town casinos won't be any problem whatsoever. The desire to gamble seems to have no limit, and people will always find a way to do so. Government knows this and is simply re-arranging things in order to generate more gambling revenue, with less going to subsidize others, including the horse racing industry, as part of the process. If my local casino closes, and I don't know why it would since the parking lot is full even on Christmas Day, people will find some other way to spend their money, probably on-line, and thereby generate even more money, with no overhead whatsoever, for government than the $1.7 billion you suggest comes from these casinos. Furthermore, it is a double-standard to proffer protectionist arguments about the ability of disaffected casino workers to make their mortgage payments, but not care about the ability of the gamblers to make their own. Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

Stephen the first thing you you are going to find ourn is the racino in Clinton will certanly close. The fact that the parking lot is full is NOT what the OLG cares about. Did you think The slot parlor at Flamboro or Georgain Downs were empty ? They are closing them to encourage the people to travel to Niagara Fall and onece the finish using YOUR tax dollars to buy and build the new casino Toronto the people of Barrie can travel there. Thye racino in Ft. Erie was a VERY profitable racino for the OLG and the government. In fact that racino made $ 27 million ( that would be profit ! ) Unlike the Fallsview Casino and the other resort casino in the province, they have yet to yield a proift, infact they lost $ 40 million of tax payers money ! The government answer to try and make them earn a profit is close the ones that make a profit and encourge the people to travel to the loosing casinos. Great idea ! and lets get something straight I was never talking about the casino workers who are getting severence and are able to collect EI. Those same casino workers who are layed off because of this stupid and money loosing idea will ALL be offered the 2,400 jobs Mr Duncan will be offering in Toronto and Ottawa once his 2 new resort casinos are built with the tax payers money ! No the people I was refering to are the horseman who will certainly NOT be receiving severence or EI. Some will have to move out of the country if they still want to work in the horse racing business, others will end up collecting welfare ! Make no mistake I know the government has NO intention of getting out of the gambling business that was once the only way we the horseman can earn a living until we got into bed with the government. At one time we had contract with the racetrack to share the gambling dollar with us because that was we were racing for. By getting into bed with the government we formed a contract with OLG who had a contract with the racetrack. Once this is done some racetracks will have aggreements with the OLG to continue the racino but the HORSEMAN will not be apart of the contract. With no contract with the racetrack and bargaining power ( strike, no racing means no gambling at the track) we can not and will not get a fair contract with any racetrack ! Stephen don't think these 60,000 people in the racing industry ( not casino workers ) will be able to relocate in a different province. The fact is racing will DIE across Canada because the West and the East rely on Ontarios racing to survive and don't forget the horses in this mess. We have about 35,000 of racehorses in the province with more being born as I am typing. Some will relocate to the states but most some 80 - 90 % will end up going for slaughter, some may end up walking the streets of Clinton looking for food and water because their owners have simply walked away or passed away ! One last thought Stephen, your idea of online gambling is probally true and the Liberals are counting on YOU and YOUR addiction to gambling and drinking ! Why else would theyb add more LCBO stores and resort casinos and increase the availability of online gambling. Next think we will have is the Liberal government and the amazing way to make money ( and not spend it ** wink wink ) is they will be lowering the drinking and gambling age so our KIDDIES can help them lower the deficit and give them access to more money to waste or simply throw away. Tammy Aspden, Caistor Centre

In your previous posting, you went on about casinos closing, and then talked about how people who lost their jobs wouldn't be able to afford to gamble any more - if you weren't talking about casino workers, then I have no idea who you were talking about, because your analytical objectivity was overwhelmed by your sense of high dudgeon. It's completely mystifying, as well as economic nonsense, to see how the diversion of $345 million away from the race horse industry/sport has somehow multiplied into some sort of financial halocaust, when the basic economic truth is that giving the horse racing industry $345 million annually is, and always will be, by definition, nothing but a net-negative subsidy to a segment of the sporting/entertainment industry. It is, indeed, a sad, and somewhat-shameful comment on the state of affairs in our society when a segment of the sporting/entertainment sector goes to such extreme lengths to ignore sound economic principles, by trying to justify the amount of "pork" society should continue to put in their barrel. Stephen Thompson, Clinton, ON

The government is not giving the horse industry anything, it is simply their share of arranged monies, they do not give the horse racing industry any monies out of coffers - If someone puts a dollar in the slot machine, the government gets .75, and the horsemen get .20 with the municipality getting the other .05 - How is that government funding??

Who ever wrote this remark, I can t believe you are from Clinton. You must live in a cave there. The Slots at Tracks program has tremendously helped that community with direct payments that have added infrastructure to your community. There was aplanned multi-million dollar expansion there that included a community centre improvement or expansion. That has been put on hold as a result of the Liberal Government announcement. This direct contribution does. It factor in all the income tax dollars paid by racing's participants in and around Clinton. I ASURE YOU racing is FAR from a Net gainer in the tax equation. Racing only took 20% of the monies from the slots (that are in our buildings and use our land and parking and were not built for free) and the Government got the rest or approximately $1.3B. Not a bad piece of business. On top of that industry participants pay approximately $300M in income tax alone. This number does NOT factor in all the HST activity the horse business generates OR THE INCOME TAX PAID by spin off industries ie. feed stores , tack shops, truck dealerships, farm equipment dealerships etc. etc. The horse business and it's tertiary economic influence is FAR from being a drain on the government coffers. It is just the opposite. We are definitely a net gainer for the province. This is just a Liberal witch hunt to grab "the lowest hanging fruit" and make it look as if they are doing something about the deficit. And the socalled carrot they are holding out is few new jobs in the city and greater casino profits. Well there is no way they will offset the job losses they have created AND as far as greater casino profits----we will see. They haven't done that great with their stand alone casinos of late.

Stephen O I think you need to get your facts straight before you open your mouth. The horse racing industry does NOT drain anything form the governement coffers. In fact they add $ 1.1 Billion dollars into the coffers through race track at slots program. That money goes directly into you healthcare ! And in fact the horsemans share of profits was $ 172.5 million which we put directly back into the business to create jobs. The other $ 172.5 million went to the racetracks to pay for the renovation cost and oporating cost to run a racetrack and casino. The OLG doesn't pay rent or any other expenses to operate in these racetracks. Their only expense is their employees wages ( by the way those wages amounted to $ 355 million ). So Stephan by eliminating the sots at the race track will NOT add $ 345 million to the coffers it will actually be taking a Billion out of the healthcare. If thre OLG still plans to offer slots in a race track without the horseman they will still have to pay rent as it will become more of a tenant landlord issue. Next time get your facts straight !

The undisputed "straight" facts of the matter are: (1) the horse racing industry has been on the receiving end of an extra $345 million annually, solely because of legislative benevolence. (2) In economics, this $345 million is called a subsidy. (3) This sort of subsidy is, in economics, always net negative. Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

Mr.Thompson, I know it's not your fault that you don't understand what is happening with this "Industry". You have been misinformed by Mr. Duncan and Mr. McGuinty!
This industry provides $1.1 billion dollars in revenue annually to the OLG. The OLG provides 1.9 billion dollars, so 60% of that came from the slots for ractracks program while ensuring the horse indusry remains economically sound for rural communities. This dollar amount has not been shared by Mr. Duncan,
When Mr. Duncan told the public that they gave approximately $345 million this is a lie. Only 50% of this return to the horse industry (which is further broken down within the horse industry) for the purses and keeping 17 racetracks open across Ontario, and 60,000 jobs, diretly and indirectly, across rural Ontario. The other 50% return to track owner for using theirs facilities, lands, parkings, gamblers, and also using track’s marketing, promotions etc to bring more people to play their slots,
Horse racing industry returns in Ontario economy in 2010 2.1 bil lion dollars – if you do the math 2.1 billion dollars spent in the economy versus around $172 million and at the same time creating 60,000 jobs across Ontario. 261 million dollars in direct taxes goes to Ontario Government from horse racing industry. Very important that 80% of the 2.1 billion dollar that is spent in the economy goes to agricultural/rural sector. Horse racing industry is not a hobby... it is an agricultural job,,,,, we are like pig farmers, chicken farmers, etc... we reinvest everyday to create our own job, like the farmers.
The repercussions of this decision is extreme.
We shake our heads at the destruction of a single uninformed decision to hardworking Ontarians who have invested their lives and future in a successful Horse Industry revenue "sharing" agreement with the OLG and municipalities. What is to replace these lost revenues, jobs, taxes,?
So when you say a net drain...........I know it's not your fault...you are misinformed.

I did not include my name for my letter regarding mr. Thompson being misinformed. Please include name. Sonia DeVos

Stephen,

For a self-professed farm financial guru, you once again amaze me with your lack of understanding of the facts. I will try and explain them so you can understand:

1. The government wanted revenues from gambling but the residents of Ontario clearly stated that they didn't want slots and casinos all over the province in their backyards.

2. The public at large was willing to accept the slots at existing gaming facilities (racetracks). The government came to the racetracks and a PARTNERSHIP was negotiated that shared the revenues from the slots. The track got 10 percent for housing and maintaining the facilities (owned by the tracks).....and the horsemen got 10 percent because it was recognized that they would lose customers to the competition coming in to their house.

3. This revenue sharing agreement has worked very well and is considered a world class model on a private-public partnership.

4. NOT ONE RED CENT OF TAX PAYERS MONEY GOES INTO RACING!

Now....let's draw a hypothetical situation.....let's say the government comes to all the farm accountants and says....hey, we have this new automated accounting system for farmers....but unfortunately the public does not want us to put this in their back yards. So how about this...you can house it in your office and we will give you 10 percent of the revenues generated from the use of the system for the loss of your manual business....and 10 percent for the rent of your office. You accept this deal...and then 10 years after the government says...."thanks, but now that we have all the farmers using the automated system, we are no longer giving you a dime" !!!! You're out of business!

Get it now??

Mark Beaven
Dungannon

Too many people don't want to understand that the government of Ontario has, for over a decade, passed up the chance to earn an extra $345 million annually, by diverting it to the horse racing industry. Secondly, there is no such thing as a "partnership" with any government because government has the power, and always must have the power, to change the rules when circumstances dictate. Thirdly, the horse racing industry has squandered the dozen years they've had to "get their act together" - and the sound we so-clearly hear is the sound of their gravy boat smashing against the harbour wall of reality. Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

In a legitimate free enterprise pure capitalistic system is there any need for government? Should we elect a government based on these values that only creates opportunities with policies that encourage investments in real markets? Government has a poor record picking winners and in a perfect world will not intervene in the marketplace. I think we have to ask ourselves if that the kind of world we want? David Lyons Caledon

Stephen do you work in the horse industry ? Reading what you say tells me no. I and many other people have tried to explain how gambling works and you still don't have a grasp of the industry and fear you never will . Hopefully in the coming years you will see the error in your thinking. Maybe when your neighbors are loosimg their homes it might sink in but maybe not . Your town lost our on a $ 3 million construction job costing the town $ 750,000. I guess that doesn't bother you either. It's too bad but you don't get it you font get it and if you font care about your fellow people of this province you don't and won't . I bid you a sad goodby . Tammy

One of the "truisms" of human nature is that nobody sees doom and gloom more ominously, and in more places, than somebody about to lose some sort, type, or kind, of legislated privelege/protection - this week it's been the race horse industry's turn. By way of comparison, this story would be no different if government had been giving $345 million annually to the performing arts community and decided to not continue - the performing arts community would mount exactly the same sort of protectionist/multiplier/full employment arguments currently being proffered by the race horse industry. I don't have to know anything about the horse racing industry to know that giving it $345 million annually is, by definition, always net-negative to the economy, and derimental to the interests of my fellow taxpayers about whom I care a great deal. Therefore, in my mind, and in the mind of any economist, caring more about people's ability to indulge themselves to the tune of $345 million annually, than the people who might miss out on things like insulin pumps, is counter-productive. Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

Stephen you don't have the first clue what you are talking about. The province does not, and never has 'given' the horse industry money. The 345 million that racing gets is their share of the slot revenue generated from the slot parlours housed at their tracks. The racetracks built and maintain the slot parlours at their own expense, in return for 20% of the proceeds. That 20% is the 345 million. In comparison, for not having to put up any money to buy real estate or pay for construction, the province gets 75%, which amounts to 1.1 BILLION dollars. Add in the 261 million in tax dollars from the industry and you have close to 1.5 BILLION dollars going directly to the province to pay for your insulin pumps. Please do research next time before making such ridiculous comments.

You don't seem to understand that the horse racing industry gets this $345 million only because of legislative entitlement which can be given, and just as easily revoked - a subsidy is a subsidy regardless whether it comes directly from government, or whether it comes in the form of a legislative mandate, as is the case here. The second thing you don't understand is that the horse racing community is arguing out of both sides of its mouth at once - if province hasn't ever "given" money to the horse racing industry, then the horse racing industry has no reason to complain about government proposing to take it away - you simply can't argue that something hasn't ever been given, and simultaneously complain when it is about to be taken away. It's the twisted logic and obvious double-standards on the part of the horse industry which are, unfortunately, the origin of the truly-ridiculous comments being expressed. Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

Stephen, what exactly is your expectation then? That a private business should pay ALL the construction costs, pay ALL the insurance costs, pay ALL the salaries of the restaurant/bar staff, pay ALL the cost of maintenance, pay ALL the cost to plow the parking lots in the winter and mow the lawns in the summer, and get $0 in return? So I'm assuming you would let somebody move in to your house and get no rent in return? And before you claim the rent is too high, it is in fact the LOWEST in north america, according to the american gaming association, 20% is the lowest takeout of any casino operation anywhere on the continent by 10%.

My first expectation is that the horse-racing community would have been the first, rather than the last, to realize that they are on the receiving end of $345 million annually, solely because of favourable legislative which was easily given, and which can be just as easily taken away. I would also expect the horse racing community to realize that about 90% of the people (or probably even more) who go to any given casino on any given day, don't give a rat's patooie about horses in any way, shape, or form, and wouldn't care at all where the $345 million went. My third expectation would be for the horse racing community to realize they aren't the centre of the universe and that the "earnings" of the casinos should equally benefit all of the citizens of Ontario, rather than disproportionately favour the relatively-few on the receiving end of the $345 million portion thereof. Stephen Thompson, Clinton ON

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